Just over a month ago I submitted photographic images from an Esoteric Healing workshop manual of Serge Benhayon with his hand on a woman’s genitals accompanied by text describing it as a healing for ‘rape recovery’ to the NSW Health Care Complaints Commission. The Universal Medicine cult is undoubtedly overjoyed to know that the HCCC won’t be taking action and they can go on deceiving patients and molesting as usual.
From the HCCC’s decision letter:
With regards to your concerns about Mr Benhayon’s Esoteric Healing, there does not appear to be any sexual misconduct evident or likely to be proven. While I understand your concerns, without specific patient details or incidents, there is insufficient basis on which to take further action…
Except, to anyone who takes one look at those photos, sexual misconduct is more than evident. No professional on earth who deals with sexual abuse victims would advocate touching genitals as therapy. Unqualified healers only touch genitals if they’re perverts. NOBODY thinks those photos are okay. Even the cult is trying to tell the flock they’re fake, and we don’t see Dr Eunice Minford of Antrim General Hospital, Northern Ireland, pasting her Esoteric ‘mein kampf’ all over the internet in defence of Serge pawing at crotches. (UPDATE: Yes we do)
Should you have concerns that Mr Benhayon is misrepresenting his qualifications or providing treatment that is restricted to that of a registered health provider, you can discuss it with AHPRA as they are the appropriate body to deal with such issues.
No. AHPRA is not. We’ve been through this when there was a complaint about Esoteric Chakra-puncture. AHPRA protects job titles. It does not protect patients. They’ll only act against Serge if he tells people he’s a registered health professional or uses a professional title. Again, registered health practitioners don’t treat rape victims by fondling their genitals. If they did, they’d be deregistered. The way the law stands, Serge could have a crack at brain surgery and that would be fine if he got ‘consent’ and as long as he didn’t call himself a doctor.
Grazie per niente.
I can imagine our pretties giving each other gentle backslaps with a bit of gentle breast stroking thinking they’ve dodged a bullet, but they need to know that legislation is currently working its way through NSW state parliament, with bipartisan support, giving the HCCC new powers.
As it stands, the dysfunctional Health Care Complaints Act has limited the HCCC to investigating complaints that show the health service in question affects the clinical management or care of an individual client. In other words, they only act on complaints from individual patients. I was an individual patient, but they wouldn’t act on my complaint because Serge tried that slimy ovarian reading on me before the code for unregistered practitioners was introduced in 2008, and it can’t be applied retroactively.
In the last five months the HCCC received a number of complaints regarding Universal Medicine’s anti-health practices including molesting patients and calling it healing, a non-nutritionally based, pathology inducing diet, a medically endorsed death drive, and doctors with conflicts of interest pushing untested modalities and aiding cult recruitment. None of these were acted upon because no specific patient details were provided to show that individuals were affected.
In effect, the legislation as it stands is giving a green light to unethical practitioners to destroy lives. They may rip off, deceive, molest, starve, covertly hypnotize and otherwise abuse unwary patients as long as they do a good job of demoralizing, intimidating and bullying them into not making complaints. The regulators assist with the abuse by ensuring the complaints system is minimally amenable to victims, and plainly prohibitive to whistleblowers.
However, the new powers will mean that the HCCC will be able to initiate an investigation into a problem practitioner or service if their activities are ‘likely’ to affect an individual. The legislation will be passed in the very near future and I daresay Universal Medicine will be a test case for its effectiveness, and also the effectiveness of the Commission’s investigatory competence.
Given their attitude on what constitutes evidence and sexual misconduct (and I’m asking for a review of that decision with an explanation of what does), who knows if they’ll act on the information given so far? But the second that legislation is passed, we’ll make sure the previous complaints are reactivated, and I promise, there will be some very interested parties observing the Commission’s response.
UPDATE: The legislation has made no difference. A workshop participant made a complaint he was inappropriately touched at the direction of Benhayon, Serge denied it, and case was closed.
The difference one complaint can make
In the meantime, one person adversely affected who comes forward could completely break open this process. One recent victim – since 2008 – could get Benhayon and possibly the UM organization prohibited from practice. It’s already overdue. One complaint to the HCCC, the police or the NSW Department of Family and Community Services could ease a world of suffering for hundreds of affected families.
Not only that, we’re communicating with journalists from six different media organizations – including two of the nation’s most respected television current affairs programs. All ask if we know of a recent victim willing to go on camera. One of the nation’s largest circulating newspapers is willing to talk with victims who’d prefer to remain anonymous. They know I’m willing to go on the record, and go on camera – I already have – but to sell the story, they need newer news. The rubbish I endured with Serge happened in 2005, and for all anyone knows, he might have cleaned up his act. In the last 12 months a lot of frighteningly persuasive facts have been posted on the internet, but exposure in itself is not enough to properly bring Universal Medicine to account. It’ll require decisive regulatory action and/or a comprehensive investigation by the news media to stop the harm.
How you can help
Take another look at the Official Complaints posts. If you, your family or a loved one have been adversely affected by Universal Medicine, including being sold bullshit and told it was therapy (eg. physiotherapist Kate Greenaway clinging to your big toes for half an hour to ‘heal’ a problem with your jaw, then charging it to Medicare??) please consider making a complaint to the regulators or law enforcement bodies listed in those posts.
I also provided a list of public representatives in the post on Prohibiting Serge Benhayon, so please consider telling your story or voicing your concerns to your local parliamentarian, and CC-ing it to health ministers and attorney generals. Those not directly affected can write and ask that they act to improve legislation for protecting the public from problem healthcare services and cults. As dysfunctional as the law is in NSW, it’s the only state in Australia that has any regulation of unregistered practitioners.
See also: Universal Medicine slammed by NSW Parliamentary Inquiry
Inappropriate touching – Universal Medicine’s secretive culture of abuse
This is a long overdue note of thanks to you for all of your continuing care and work.
The time and energy that you give in notifying authorities and in researching as well as having a job etc is truly noble.
Your tireless, selfless efforts on behalf of so many is really inspiring. All free of charge!
May all of us readers be able to show the same courage and tenacity as you do.
You certainly do not have any hint of the ME-ism that is flagrantly and unashamedly written on the UM SB sites –
where there it is all about ME! ME! ME!
I might add that if and when the NSW Health Care Complaints Commissioner launches an investigation into UniMed, the commission will still need to talk to people and gather evidence. They won’t be able to do much if those affected don’t make themselves available to cooperate with an investigation.
Thanks for your support, Feline. It does help. Lucky there’s plenty of net kitties to reward you with.
Source: weheartit.com via Natasha on Pinterest
I have spoken to a number of people who, if they complained, it would be a kidney-punch for Serge and UM and in some cases a death blow. I have also had cult members remark that if there was ‘something to it’ then the complaints would have already happened. Which is nonsense. All of the would-be complainants (so far), like most victims, just want to forget it and get on with their lives. They don’t want to re-traumatize themselves by going through a long complaint process, or fronting up in court to face off with Serge. I also think some of them are confused as to whether they were even abused because of the way it occurred- esp in the context that Serge develops; so called healing. Because of the sterile, quiet rooms with a clinical feel, people give their power and tacit permission for boundaries to be transgressed, without realizing, consciously at least, that an abuse has occurred. Like you say Venus, every woman that has had a EBM has suffered a form of abuse, yet I would say most of them force themselves to perceive it the other way.
It’s also easy to forget that the biggest abuse of this whole sham is that Serge pretends to be a healer- ‘the healers healer (c) SB’- had a deceptively named business :Universal MEDICINE- which has nothing to do with ‘medicine’ and eveything to do with COVERT indoctrination of ‘patients’ which in my book is massive psychological abuse. We all know Serge pretends that he just offers ‘choices’ when in fact those choices are literally heaven or hell. The whole set up is nefarious. It is like slowly dipping someone in shit so they don’t know it is happening.
A parallel would be going to see your local doctor because you are not well, who instead asks you to a meeting, and at the meeting tells you he knows the meaning of it all, and you too can- for a hefty price- and you sign up for a series of courses…to become a pretend doctor. And along the way, he slowly coaches you into dressing like a weirdo, walking in like you’ve got a rod up your arse while staring into the mid-distance with a try-hard gioconda smile, not lifting anything heavier than the cash you need for his next course, giving up intimacy because it is an illusion based on needs, hating charity because it is the greatest evil while tricking you into giving him as much cash as you can afford, restricting your diet because some food is evil because he says so, only listening to his sons/chief suck hole’s music because it is energetically clear, and thinking the sun shines out of his proverbial A-hole. Of course, the only difference is in this example, the guy has a medical qualification. SERGE HAS NOTHING. By his own admission.
What a nasty scam he has going on. At least he could advertise what he is really doing. But no, heart chakra 1, sacred healing 2, esoteric chakra-puncture, esoteric medicine, and now, esoteric psychology all give the FALSE impression that someone is going to learn some skill and some healing modality, when in actual fact they are learning NOTHING at all. Nothing that can be used on anyone else except another member. What is REALLY happening is they are being INDOCTRINATED into believing Serge know something when in fact he knows far less than nothing. He has them in a massive head-fuck which starts with his deceptively named businesses and courses and ends with them wandering out of his courses with stupid looks on their faces, confused and bewildered- all loved up on the outside, and smelling like shit to everyone else.
And in just over a week, they will be lining up like lemmings at Lennox Head, handing the cash to Deborah ( who will dutifully trot off with it back to the strongroom) so they can have their head done in a little more, and themselves rolled in some extra smelly excrement by the master of bullshit. Now that is ABUSE.
What’s happening next week? My partner lined up like a lemming last week….
I think Nancy said it best when she said she’d never seen anything so devious.
The mind boggles – and who are his principle targets? The ill, especially the terminally ill and mentally ill, women in hormonal crisis, people having relationship problems, victims of sexual abuse and adolescents.
Richard talked about the ‘halo effect’ in a previous post – violating the vulnerable while acting as if butter wouldn’t melt in your mouth and surrounded by pretty things and hugs, in combination with the covert hypnosis – and it’s lethal. Cult expert, Margaret Singer, talked about thought reform techniques as deceptive, featuring one sided authoritarian communication, hidden agendas, with the thought reform occurring in steps so that the target isn’t aware.
The aim is to :
Destabilize a person’s sense of self,
Get the person to drastically reinterpret his or her life’s history and radically alter his or her worldview and accept a new version of reality and causality,
Develop in the person a dependence on the organization, and thereby turn the person into a deployable agent of the organization.
Nice summaries here: http://www.rickross.com/reference/cults_in_our_midst/cults_in_our_midst2.html
Also, if a doctor did what Serge does they’d face deregistration. Then again with the regulators asleep at the wheel, who knows?
And Deborah Benhayon, while carting the cash back to Fort Serge, ask yourself what price you’ve paid. What price are your kids going to pay? Grandkids now too.
“Esoteric Psychology: Being the founder and thus a practitioner of Esoteric Medicine, Serge practises and is a teacher of the art of Esoteric Psychology. The attending students will receive a deep and comprehensive model and series of exercises that they can develop and have as an ongoing tool towards the unfolding nature of our coming times.”
MORE REALLY $CARY $CARY $TUFF!! This is an excerpt from the advertising write up about next week’s 4 days of $leazy $erge indoctrination @ the cost $1590.00.(OMG)
The ad also says it had to be paid in full by October 2012 and is NON REFUNDABLE NON TRANSFERRABLE!!
A program I saw the other night said it is against Australian law to say No Refunds! Yet another money making evil evil $cam to $pread $erge’$ $courge
I bet you can still book though. I doubt it’ll be a full house. Not even close.
HDIH, next weekend is the Lennox Head retreat. 4 full days of mind fry. Divorce lawyers across Australia are rubbing their hands together. Mental health professionals and GPs are gritting their teeth. Next month he takes the exorcism and mind fuck roadshow to the UK to make the damage truly international.
In response to HDIH, it is the annual Lennox Head “retreat” where Serge pulls out all the stops and implements all the classic cult indoctrination methodology. It’s 5 days of getting up in the dark, employing ‘relaxation and meditation’ to soften the ‘students’ (AKA thought stopping techniques) sitting in a crowded hall listening to Serge drone on with his psychotic ramblings, love bombing, group reinforcement and going to bed exhausted- totally incapable of forming a critical self actuated idea to resist the wholesales thought-reform that has been foisted on you, for which you pay heavily for the ‘privilege’. Having listened to Serge’s deceptive ramblings on his downloads, it is my idea of absolute hell to be subjected to 5 days of his absolute mind numbing (literally) bullshit- but the students flock to be punished each year. ( I suspect that during the year they started to have thoughts of their own and have to rush back to stop the pain of reality flooding in on them)
Feline, refunds- Serge does not give them. We know of a few people who have asked for them, and they have not been forthcoming. Although I know in the media he claims “if it isn’t to people’s liking, they can leave and get a full refund” Maybe the $5 EDG’s but when there is serious CASH involved there appears not be a CHANCE IN HELL. And you are right. You can’t just say you don’t refund carte blanche. It is illegal under the ACL. BUT THEN SO IS EVERYTHING ELSE SERGE DOES, so what should we expect?
I made the mistake of looking at the UM site for the 2013 retreat. OMG, what a load of shit. The amazing thing is Serge is unrelenting in his desire to screw with people’s lives in spite of the scrutiny he has received, which means he is either a total narcissistic moron or a total sociopath moron. I can’t work out which. He takes a general malaise and the symptoms of existence and turns them into a tool for screwing people around into his highly warped and childlike clearly ripped-off and massively ‘bastardized” ideas.
Here’s an except from the thousands of words on that page which is very telling:
To anyone who has attended our previous Retreats, there can be no doubt whatsoever that group work in the one-unifying way is the only way to reconstruct ourselves back into the Brotherhood (true one family) we are originally from … and in that process develop a trust for humanity that has long been lost. (translation; Welcome to the UM cult, the world can’t be trusted)
Even if life to-date, as it is known through experience and by historical fact, is not that which we can truly call a one-unified-expression, it is nonetheless a call we must never ever refrain from calling-out to. In this regard, the 2013 Retreats will continue to feature more such group work along with other skills and revelations that are yet to unfold in order to build towards our life and way of being that will be energetically and practically sound. ( translations: one-unified expression= mindless repetition of Serge’s flights of fancy and thought-stopping terminology. Group work= reinforcing cult membership. Energetically and practically sound = the rules of being in the cult)
The way forward — as developing and or advanced students of the Way of the Livingness, we stand to offer a difference – a real and sustainable difference that can be seen, tasted, felt, heard, touched and scented as so many of our students’ testimonials and blogs have stated. From those active sensors of life, others will begin to experience that which they know deep within is of equal truth, but have to-date not experienced in themselves or, in another, and thus, have either checked-out in fluctuating mistrust or, given-up on in absolute mistrust. The Way of the Livingness holds the key to resurrecting their trust simply by the observation of those who are living what they can see and feel is the natural truth. ( translation= are you a mindless twit that writes in one-unified expression on the student cult blogs? If not, we will beat you into shape so you too can go online and trash your reputation and look like a total mindless cult member. Checked out? Have you started coming to your senses? Spend 5 days with us and we will do your head in all over again. $1590 please. Cash, No refunds)”
Blah, Blah, Blah….The whole page more or less summarizes what I said above. It doesn’t make sense. It is authoritarian, it is a head-fuck, it is based on bullshit and it is written by someone with a meager command of language and clearly no idea what he is talking about; besides not being qualified to be a ball boy. BUT the students not only suck it up and go along and pay for it. It gives me a very dim view of humanity, which I must say has taken a severe beaten the last year or so, as I belatedly realize that the more irrational someones position or behavior the more passionate they are in defending it. Worse still, the less likely they are to aware of it. And if they are even dimly, rationalization is a wonderful drug.
Speaking of rationalization, it is the first time I have read the ‘testimonials’ on the somewhat sanitized UM website, scribbled by the usual suspects and an idiot doctor or two. One unified expression is right. Morons defending someone who has not a modicum of normal integrity. Now that is rationalization hard at work.
My ex who’s still in it told me her son is going through really heavy emotional time. This maybe OK if he was 20 or 30 and had something to cause it. He’s 10 years old!! He should be having fun like all kids do and are expected to do. This shit DOES rub off and IS affecting a child of this age. That is abuse!! I have never experienced anyone I know with a young child suffering from emotional problems this age that’s in a good balanced family. Has anyone else??
Amendment “WAS in a good balanced family”
I know of a couple of children around the same age and younger having some emotional troubles. Their mothers are UM students so maybe there’s a pattern….
There is definitely a pattern. I’ve heard this from a number of sources and our commentators are likely to confirm what they’ve observed among cult children.
It’s one of the things that keeps me on this case…
I do have a post on Esoteric parenting in the planning stages with a bunch of deranged quotes from Sergio’s writings. It may go some way to explaining the distress of cult children. The mental health consequences are bad enough for adults when cult members believe that emotions are the cause of all disease. When these same people are attempting to raise children with such beliefs it is, as Winston says, abuse. Frankly, a child cannot feel secure and protected when a parent is emotionally shut down, or when the parent themselves has been utterly infantilized and is incapable of making mature and autonomous decisions. That lack of mature modelling can induce confusion and anxiety in kids.
But here I am again, preaching to the choir, while cult parents are literally sacrificing the wellbeing of their children. It’s nothing new either. The Hare Krishnas had an enormous scandal when it was found children were separated from their parents for schooling with cult teachers, and numbers of them were abused in these boarding schools. Any number of cults have abused children – The Family, Scientology, The Branch Davidians etc.
I will get to that post, and I have others planned on Esoteric Manhood (pffft) and Esoteric Sex (ugh), however I’ve also been handed material for new complaints. This picture never gets prettier. So bear with me.
Oh and We Know Who, Serge will continue his brazen abuses under scrutiny and he’ll probably escalate it. He’s on a path of destruction and he wants to maximize the damage. I’ll put money on it. He’s looking to go out in a blaze of ingloriousness and take as many as he can with him.
Hi HDIH. Yes there is a pattern. I have seen kids of the cults affected from formative years right through to teenage and beyond. I guess it boils down to the behavior of the cult parent/s who, if they are ‘stepping up’ will adopt a cool empathy free exterior making themselves emotionally unavailable for the child. This might be subtle but is like a sledgehammer to kids. Serge talks about ‘meeting people in truth’ but what it really means is not ‘enjoining’ yourself in their drama’s, pains or suffering- ie; checking out from the thing that connects humans together so we can function as parents, families and societies. His other expression, which they all use is ” being in the world, but not of the world” which I think is very telling. On top of that, the parents will be helping develop food phobias, probably getting them to avoid sport and activities as it is ‘too pranic’.
Then there is growing up in a sterile, lifeless home where love is for yourself only. Death to children. Layer on top of that Serge’s idea that ‘children are adults in kids bodies’ and you have parents making fundamental errors in what they tell these children and how the guide them. The number one thing any developmental parenting course will tell you is kids ARE NOT adults in children’s bodies. They are developing, and see the world very differently to adults. Treating them like they are adults can lead to severe development and emotional issues. The absolute danger of course is that the child see’s the parent worshiping Serge, which despite their claims to the contrary, most of them do in some way or another. Imagine experiencing a world where your parents gives supernatural powers to one person. As a child you take your parents view of the world literally. In all cases that is wrong, in the case of Serge, it is perilous for obvious reasons, and perhaps the not so obvious.
What kids needs is a stable, loving home life with parents that show them how to think for themselves and guide them according to their development. What you get with cult families, is split partners, single mothers looking moon eyed at Serge, their father figure, and parenting their kids based on his insane ideas, which have ended up with his kids being his subdued lackeys, his ex-wife conducting parenting courses (!!???) and his new wife being the age of his oldest child.
Yes, there is a pattern.
(PS- the rationalization the cult member has for all this is- they are points of light, and members of lineage of those ‘doing the work’- once they come back to the brotherhood and find Serge/the group- they start to reflect stronger. This brings up stuff in people around them who are ‘pranic’ ‘astral’ influenced by entities- who then resist the ‘truth’ by getting angry, abusive, writing on blogs, ‘changing’- The issues that the kids are having would be described by Serge/one of the stupid cult psychologists ( Brendan Mooney has my vote as most pathetic, but Caroline Raphael is the in-house ass-kissing apologist who metes out most of the advice on parenting and relationships) as past life issues/reaction to their own ‘inner light’ or some other total unsubstantiated crap that will damage children. Of course, the more obvious TRUTH evades them, which is that is they who have changed and their behaviour to those not in the cult is dismissive, cold, distant and in actual fact ABUSIVE.
The only difference is that they are mostly woman, so they are apparently not capable of abuse. But like all things that Serge and the cult does, their behavior is simply a massive dog-ball projection of how damaged they have become and how they treat the people that they say they love.)
Your dammed right there is a pattern. It comes from the contant pressure of questioning action, thoughts and feelings. What ever the UM student is “learning” is practised on their children and anyone who is in contact with them. It never stops in their day……always questioning everything. The belief in signs is so prolific that it takes over normal reality. Then it’s time to centre yourself. They believe “children do truth” but why is it so when I have experieced it first hand her son’s absolute rebellion to his mother’s beliefs so much that he would go absolutely crazy when she tried to take him to a practitioner? His mother was told by the practitioner that in his past life he was a slave with some obscure relationships to Cathars? I have noticed outside of UM people first feel sorry for those committed to UM but very soon afterwards just don’t care as there is nothing that will change their thought process and they are not prepared to listen. I have spoke to many on this situation and everyone just feels for these children caught up in this shit but there seems no way to help. Why the hell is there no help from child agencies in Australia where there is very clear emotional abuse? As I’ve said before, Serge and all of his practitioners have to be made accountable for their actions. I note also a practitioner in NZ’s second job” is in palliative care? I wonder if the loved ones of those know what her other “job” is$
Unfortunately there isn’t a lot we can do that I know of. If anyone has any bright ideas please let us know.
For parents of cult children, I’d suggest making sure the parent shows their emotions – children need to learn what is an appropriate and healthy emotional response. The full spectrum of motions are an essential part of our humanity. It’s appropriate to feel sadness, grief, anger, remorse etc. and kids need to see mature adults manage those emotions, not repress them, but deal with them in a way that is constructive. The other thing kids desperately need is plenty of physical affection and validation of their emotions. I’d be angry too at being carted to an eso-numbskull healer who was talking about scary energy, and flogging ugly symbols and useless products, putting their clammy hands on me, acting weird and telling me I’d been a slave among a subculture that was hacked to death. For pity’s sake. Those adults are incapable of recognizing a child in distress and that’s a disgrace.
What concerns me is that the more distressed cult members and their kids become, the more they seek out Esoteric numbskull healing. I know of a woman in UM who was showing signs of clinical depression, crying all the time, unable to sleep, unable to focus at work, and when a non cult friend suggested she needed to see a doctor for a mental health plan, this woman said it was ok, Jenny Ellis could refer her to one of the Esoteric psychologists. Her condition hasn’t improved.
If kids are in distress find a good GP and look for a referral to a decent child psychologist. If either professional has anything good to say about UM, get the child the heck away from them and give me their name.
One more thing, a close friend of mine had a condition called colitis, he went to see this practitioner in NZ and she said she could help cure his condition……of course she didn’t. I found this out as I asked if he had heard of this practioner and he knew who I was talking about straight away. Just to clarify it was many years ago when he sort help when this bullshit was in its early days.
Venus has done and is doing a sterling job, but she needs our support – now! We have to lodge our individual complaints with the authorities.Even when the proposed legislation becomes law the HCCC, AHPRA still need victims to come forward and tell their story.
Or their families can tell their story.
If the HCCC & AHPRA etc deem that there is a case to be answered these bodies are the ones to take up the disciplinary procedures against UM and SB not the victims. If we know something we have to say something. This horrible disgusting abuse in all it’s forms
has to be stopped. ‘The power of the people.’ There is alot of support out there for all victims and their families.
The children in UM worry me the most. My friends had a baby after Serge cleared their past karma. I have seen a photo of this child doing a chakra puncture to a doll. My friends are intelligent lovely human beings who were just fine before they met Serge. They were obviously looking for meaning in their life and a way to stop some bad habbits, but hey I recon there are other more support ways to stop smoking and drinking that can work wonders, no need to joing a cult to break bad habbits.
Serge is just one complete weird dude. What anyone sees in him I do not know.
A reader sent a link to the latest media release concerning a HCCC prohibition order. (Trigger warning for anyone recovering from sexual abuse) http://www.hccc.nsw.gov.au/Publications/Media-releases/2013/Mr-Hatem-Hoso-Serdah—prohibited-from-practising-as-a-massage-therapist-for-two-years
A few things:
(1) The HCCC does prohibit practitioners for sexual misconduct.
(2) It requires a complaint naming an individual client/victim.
(3) Victims aren’t publicly named.
(4) How many patients did that practitioner assault before someone made a complaint? How many real victims were there and does the HCCC care?
(5) A 2 year prohibition is a joke considering the assault that took place. The perpetrator in this case should be in the clink, and I suggest any victim in this position goes to the police as well.